NOTE: The following post was done by my wife, Angela, and appears without edits.
Guest writer time again, kids. I will say that I am nowhere near as eloquent as my husband (my talents lie more in pure intimidation and inciting fear), but I will give it a shot as I feel this will help shed some light onto our relationship, and how we came to be at this point. And for those of you who are slow and can’t infer from the previous sentences, this is Michael’s wife. Don’t believe it? Then please just stop reading.
First- some background:
Michael and I have been married for 4 years. Before that we knew each other for about 3. Of that, we dated on and off for about 2. I say on and off because I had a serious problem with commitment, and, honestly, trusting myself and my feelings. Michael was able to see this, and managed to put up with me, against the wishes of many of his friends (I’m looking at you, down under!). Michael was able to see this, and be patient enough to wait without losing respect for me, as I’m sure it wasn’t easy to watch the woman you loved go gallivanting off with all sorts of idiotic man boys, and yet still maintain an unbiased friendship.
Cammy has been mentioned here before, and I’ll do it again- I owe her my current happiness. Cammy visited Michael during one of our rocky times, and Michael and her gallivanted a bit on their own. When I found out (via Michael’s own mouth, no less), I was livid. I had no right to be, mind you. I had a boyfriend, and Michael was single. We got back together shortly after, and I realized that I couldn’t see myself with anyone else. It was still a growing process, but Cammy started me on the path to realizing what it was I had, and what I could lose: my lover, my best friend, my partner.
Fast forward a couple of years, and here we are. I feel I have the greatest relationship with Michael because of where we’ve been, and I can’t wait to go forward. I think we both have pretty liberal views on our marriage- but I wouldn’t have it any other way. I trust him implicitly, as he does me. But it’s because we choose not to constantly question each other, as I see in many other relationships. It takes that whole insecurity issue right out of our relationship, and it’s wonderful.
Every day- every married/committed individual makes a decision to stay true to their significant other; do you go to work? or do you go to your ex’s house? At any time either of us could make a decision that could end our relationship, and we both know that would be the result. Heavy? You betchya. But true? Yes. And it’s how we’ve decided to live our lives. It helps because those who know us, know that we are both flirty people. We love the little squeezes, and flirty touches, and god help us against strict workplace sexual harassment policies, but hey…who doesn’t like to feel like the sexiest, most enchanting girl in the world?
Michael makes me feel like this every day. And I know that he makes others feel this way too. He can make a 60 year old woman feel like she’s still a vivacious, sexy creature, not just a grandmother who wakes up in the morning with sore ankles. He can show a 21 year old how to take a compliment, and how she should be treated by members of the opposite sex. He just makes you feel special, and in turn, teaches you how to value yourself as well through his offer of friendship. And it is just that- whether he holds you, or kisses you hello, it’s just his way of showing you how special you are to him. It doesn’t mean he wants to sleep with you- although many women seem to be so jaded that they feel any man who shows them a certain level of attention only has this goal in mind. It’s just Michael.
Am I jealous of this? No- because I know he is true and he is mine. If you happen to be one of his women friends, and you step over that line, he’ll let you know. Nicely at first, and then more blatantly (head’s up again, Aussies!).
Again, many women don’t agree with my views. My mother thinks I’m plum nuts. And I agree- I would literally have to walk in on him and another woman (but Sam, you’ve got a pass!) to believe he was being untrue..and I know that that would be it for me. And likewise on the other side as well. But just imagine how liberating it is to not to have to think about what he does and where he goes every day, questioning his love and faithfulness.
So ladies, I’m not stupid, anything could happen, I hear about pretty much everything that goes on, and I know what I would do if something ever did happen (I already have the plot picked out in the back yard), but until that point- enjoy him as I have. Because even though you may not be getting all of him, the part he chooses to share is still pretty amazing.
Woman you deserve an award.
You guys have one of those relationships that prove that love isn’t a huge crock of shit.
F*ING DIBS IF THAT BASTARD KICKS THE BUCKET!
Aww Portnoy, you just want a woman that will go WITH you to strip clubs. And I bring my OWN money.
This, of course, is one of the reasons why neither one of us has a problem with the “separate” vacations issue. Angela tends to go on long weekend jaunts several times throughout the year. Usually we’ll take one trip somewhere together. Other than that, we’re more than happy to go on our own ways.
And why does Angela deserve an award? Do you know the number of times that I’ve heard about her getting hit on in clubs and stuff? I could only laugh and giggle at her when she was telling me about her George Michael look alike in Chicago. She’ll be leaving me again a few times over the next few weeks for business and you don’t think I know men will be hitting on her?
All it takes is some trust, honesty and communication, folks.
The two of you drive me insane. I remember going out with Michael while you while two were split and we were at one of the ‘Scenic Views’ off of the GW Parkway. The cocktwit would kiss me, even to the point where I thought my heart was going to explode out of my chest. It was very romantic. And then the bastard stopped! He wouldn’t go any further than that!! Even though he was still single he said “I’m not going any further than this, Ash.”
Liz and Cammy and I talked about it later and we came to the conclusion that the altruistic, loyal bugger was still holding out for you.
You guys make me as cross as a frog in a sock! Now be a dear and send him over. We’ll toss you goldilocked surfers.
I hate blonde men. They really do nothing for me. I like the dark brooding types.
Send me my car.
I think it is commendable that both of you have such an open marriage. Normally you only hear about spouses who don’t trust each other and who are completely paranoid about what the other is doing. Most young couples these days think that they always have to be with their significant other. Such a shame, really.
I know I normally give you a hard time, Angela, but it is all in good fun. I think it is great that the two of you take vacations apart as well. It gives you something to talk about.
So you really don’t mind if he goes out and “dates” other women? YOu have no problem with him taking them out to dinner, to a concert, takes them on holiday, to a movie, etc.?
I wanted clarification because those can be very intimate situations. Seeing a post like his Beef. It’s What’s For Dinner is a prime example. You don’t have any issues with him going out with a girlfriend and wining, dining and dancing with her?
it sounds like you lead totally separate lives but you’re married.
Re: Darren- I guess it has just never been an issue. I would have a problem with that if I started to feel like he was overlooking me for these other women. But he doesn’t..We go out and do all these things as well together. I agree that it can lead to intimate moments, but I trust that they are more along the lines of “Wow, what a nice time” than the “oh my god I want to rip your clothes off you right now.” And if it does come to that point? Then it really comes down to Michael making a choice. I’m not going to control my husband by prohibiting him from getting into tempting situations. He’s a big boy and can take care of himself.
Re: Kristin- We definitely have times where our schedules seem at odds with each other, but in general we’re very synched up. We’re in contact with each other several times during the day, whether via email, phone or texting. I guess when I read your post, you made it sound like we don’t enjoy actually sharing our lives and being together..which I can’t agree with. We both live very full lives, we’re both very invested in our careers, and each have a million things on our plates, but when we get the opportunity to unwind, play, etc..I’m pretty sure I speak for both of us when I say we generally seek out each other first.
I think that is great for both of you. You’re both really understanding of each other’s personal lives. I hope michael ffeels better. His chest cold made him cranky yesterday! He was really understanding and patient with me, too. Hopefully, I’ll get to meet you sometime, Angela.
I’ve always thought of Michael’s relationship with Angela as interesting, and although this clarifies things, it still seems like this is something where both parties are putting themselves in situations where it could potentially lead to a lot of drama. I know you guys trust each other, but sometimes you can’t control your feelings, and by allowing and encouraging casual dating outside of your marriage, what IF one day, one of you just happens to meet that one person that just totally sweeps you off your feet and you can’t draw that line? I know your relationship is about trust, but why put yourself in that situation where it could lead to trouble?
Damn. That’s pretty cool. My wife is too much of a fruitcake to be as cool as younguys. Hell, so am I. Best of luck to you both.
But here’s a question: what if one of you becomes attracted to someone else?
DAMMIT! I swear i thpught of the question first!!!
I don’t know when Angela can answer this so I’ll take a swing at it. If she has a different opinion then then she is more than welcome to submit it.
There are over 6 billion people in the world. The mere thought of there being only one soulmate or person for someone is preposterous. There just may be the possiblity that one of us meets another person that makes us go ga ga. The truth is that it would be something that we would need to discuss and a cross we’ll have to bear should we ever get to that point.
Speculating about it is too difficult. But limiting yourself from meeting other people, enjoying their company and not allowing yourself to experiencing things outside of your marriage is only cheating your and your spouse out of life, isn’t it?
I think casual flirting is fine..it reminds us we are alive! And, I agree Michael makes even the most tired elderly woman perk up. That’s a gift!
But, at the end of the day, I am glad you have each other and are true to that relationship becuase all the other stuff is just fluff…
Re: plot in backyard
I HAVE THE SHOVEL AND MARGARITAS, JUST CALL!!!
….marshmellow french fry…anyone…Bueller?
I agree that flirting adds spice to a marriage. But these guys take it to the next plateau. And they’re fine with it, which is even more eye opening. They seem to not be jealous of anyone that the other is going out with. There’s no sense of threat, fear or insecurity.
What kills me is that neither is being the least bit territorial. I think it really cool that a wife is fine with her husband going out on dates with other women. As long as he respects her ability to do the same, why not? But like i said – my wife is a fritcake.
Wow. I finally find this place and look at your discussion! Michael, affairs of the heart are very delicate. Please be careful and think about the person(s) that you date and whether or not they begin to have feelings for you. Angela, Michael has a history of falling in love with or being very infatuated with VERY beautiful women. Hw do you deal with that?
Now for my question. Angela, Michael has a habit of falling head over heels in love with women. Maybe it is more of a history than a habit. How do you deal with his infatuations? It js evident that he forms strong emotional bonds with people. However, his god friends know that he is VERY selective to the people he keeps close to him.
As an example, let’s look at a recent person. It is evident that he has a deep fondness for his friend Allie. If he was single he would most likely have tried I romance her. I wouldn’t even hesitate to say that he’s smitten with her. For all I know he may be passionately in love with her but scared to let anyone know.
Would you expect him to tell you he loves her? Or that he has some type of feelings for her?
Michael, same question except with George Michael.
OK- Let me see if I can address some of this-
I have been attracted to several men since I got married. I am human and I think to say that I haven’t been is lying. But again, attraction isn’t everything- it’s a human emotional reaction to another individual’s looks, personality, and poise. I choose to be with Michael over any of these other people I run across. On his end, is he tempting himself by hanging out with these other women? I don’t think the odds are any worse than falling for a coworker unexpectedly, someone at the gym, etc. etc. It all comes down to: when presented with a choice, do you stay or do you go? We all know that attraction can come suddenly (noticing the hot guy at the club) or slowly (the coworker scenario). Am I really saving myself from heartache by insisting my hubby not hang out with attractive women? Is that the kind of wife I want to be?
I also don’t think that we go on “dates” with other people. I think a date- in it’s strictest definition- is when you plan on spending time with someone in which you have a romantic interest with a goal of getting to know them better to develop the relationship into something deeper.
I don’t feel that Michael or I has every had romantic interest in anyone other than each other since we’ve been together, and hence the difference between me, and the rest of the women he hangs out with.
Also- keep in mind that there is a lot of respect in our relationship. After reading through my essay above, don;t think for a minute that every now and again, some twit chick just rubs me the wrong way. Whether it’s because of how she treats me, or how I feel she’s eying Michael…if that happens, I let him know. It’s rare, but he takes my feelings into consideration first over anyone else’s.
Wow, Haley. Haven’t heard from you for a while and you come out with both guns blazing, don’t ya? How’s the brood?
I find your questions to be a little difficult to answer, especially since philosophically Angela and I diverge a bit on this one. Let’s concentrate on Angela, first. I can’t (and even better I won’t) keep an eye on Angela all day. I know that she comes across many different people at work, out shopping, in bars, clubs, etc. I’m not going to get mad at her if she sees someone that she finds attractive. I’m not even going to get mad at her if she finds herself briefly fantasizing about someone else. If she decides to tell me about it what can I do about it? Listen to her, that’s what.
That’s what humans do. We think. Our minds wander. We fantasize.
If she felt the need to tell me that she was starting to feel something more for someone else, I’d listen again and ask myself if I had done anything wrong lately or wonder if there is something that I can’t provide for her. However, this is all predicated on whether or not one spouse is comfortable enough to express how they feel about an individual outside their marriage. If she tells me, she tells me and we figure out where to go from there. If she doesn’t tell me, she doesn’t tell me and she deals with the feelings and situation the best way she can. I could only hope that if she did find she had feelings for someone else that she wouldn’t be afraid to discuss it with me.
Crap shoot, isn’t it? You really have no other choice since you can’t control another person’s feelings or life. I would at least want George Michael’s autograph.
As far as the “dates”, I don’t entirely agree with Angela. Then again, I’m slightly more unconventional and she understands that. I don’t even know if I can fully explain it. I’ll hold off on that for a different post. This is getting long winded as it is.
As far as my attraction/infatuation with other women, I let Angela know how I feel about everyone. We talk about it casually. There’s no harm in exploring your feelings for other people nor expressing them to your spouse. And it is better that we both have some type of barometer to see if any type of caution should be used.
Let’s take your example – I think Allie is gorgeous. I also think she’s really smart, funny, sexy and a cornucopia of other great adjectives. I think she’s an amazing friend to be around. I told Angela that I thought Allie was hot over a year ago when we first met. Remember, at that point I didn’t even know her back then. Again, I don’t hide how I feel about other people from Angela. She knew well over a year ago that I had an instantaneous attraction to Allie. That didn’t mean that I was going to go out an woo her, though.
(As an aside, I have no idea if Allie reads this site. However, even if I was single I don’t think that there would be any way possible that I could ‘romance’ her. Why?
1. I’m a dope and I’d probably screw it up
2. I don’t think I’m her type
3. She wouldn’t feel the same way so it would be a lost cause in the first place. Takes two to tango, no?
4. Gorgeous, intelligent, sexy woman attracted to what? Me? HAHAHA! That’s a good one. Yeah, let’s just go ahead and throw a bucket of cold water over my ego now.)
It is important that you know yourself and how you react to those feelings. I know my boundaries. I think Angela knows my boundaries. I think I know Angela’s boundaries. We understand each other well enough to know where those boundaries are and when they might be crossed. And if we get to a point where we start to push those boundaries I like to think that we are responsible enough adults to talk about it.
I didn’t think you guys would go into such depth explaining your positions! I think it is great that you guys are the way you are. It seems like you both know how to enjoy life to the fullest and you take every opportunity to expand your horizons.
I don’t know how to read but all those words look REALLY interesting.
Allie – call me!
So you say you don’t care if angela fantasized othermen and that it is a natural thing to do. Do you ever fantasize aout other women or your female friends? And how do you guys maintain balance in your relationshp with each other?
Silly Kris. If it’s natural then of course I fantasize about other women. Who wouldn’t? Then again, when we talk about ‘fantasizing’ I don’t think it means having sex; it may be more along the lines of being curious rather than thinking of some situation that will never come true.
It’s the more innocent things and probably mundane things that run through my head: I wonder what perfume she’s wearing? I wonder if she has soft lips? If she drank a liter of soda, what letter could she burp to? Does she like to laugh? How did she decide to wear that outfit today? What’s on her mind right now?
Sometimes I’ll think of other things but rarely does it involve the horizontal mambo. That sort of takes the fun out of it, doesn’t it? Like getting straight to the ending of a book rather than reading everything before it. If I’m feeling especially randy, I’ll have an image flash in my head of softly grazing a neck with my lips. That’s pretty much it.
As far as maintaining balance, I think we’ve both covered it pretty well: frank, honest communication.
Sweetheart, with regards to whether or not you are Allie’s type or anyone’s type – it doesn’t matter. There may be types of people that women are attracted to and that we think might be ideal and fantasize about, but when it comes down to it we recognize when there is someone outside that ideal. It may be because you’re diffferent or really nice. It may be because you’re a dying breed of both being a gentleman AND a romantic. It may be because you’re smart and witty and know how to make a woman laugh. Or it could be because you make women feel beautiful and confident. Dare I even say sexy? There are so many other variables other than what you think a woman’s ideal “type” would be.
I don’t think you give yourslef enough credit, michael. “Type” Is one thing but that still doesn’t mean you don’t posess qualities women find attractive. You’re smart, attentive an old school gentleman, and thoughtful. You think of things that most other guys would never even consider.
Something else I like about you is that you aren’t some pussy pushover, spineless guy. You’re determined and headstrong. You’re just a reallly cool guy.
Say, this is all well and good but I have a question: How do we know that Angela really wrote this? I mean, can you prove that you wrote this post? This seems a little too good to be true.
How would you prove it? I dunno. But it sure would be sneaky if Michael wrote this and posted it.
Portnoy, Angela can’t respond right now because she’s at a trade show in Montgomery, Alabama, and enjoying 100+ degree weather. She’ll figure some way to prove she wrote it.
I miss you, Allie. Plain and simple.
Go with the plan. *waving hands in the air, using “the force” to influence Mike*
Portnoy, It wouldn’t be the first sneaky thing…
designgrrl:
i couldn’t help but notice that your response was posted during business hours.
how much do you value your job?
Ignore her.
I couldn’t help but notice that designgrrl’s post was posted at all, seeing as how Mike could easily zap it into oblivion and we would all be none the wiser. To me, that says a lot about his character. I still think he’s a nut, but he’s a fair-minded one. 😉
I think he’s pretty. Truthfully, I look up to him. Don’t go getting all mushy on me. You seem to have everything so well put together and a good head on your shoulders. I’m not afraid to say it I’m envious of you. I don’t want to come right out and declare you a role model but there are things that you do and say that are pretty fucking admirable.